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to TRS, Bonne, and occasionally Mottel.
Despite your warning...
ReplyDeleteWho wouldv'e known E goes on h.com. Do you have an account there?
I got the 1st part, but still don't get the part about being a jerk. (Ya ya, ur gonna say something about how this wasn't meant for me anyway. Discriminate.)
1. I don't go to h.com. A facebook friend of mine posted a link to it.
ReplyDelete2. If your religion doesn't allow you to compliment people, isn't the religion making you into a jerk?
3. I didn't think ladies wouldn't understand this post. I just thought it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss masturbation without warning the girls.
1. good choice
ReplyDelete2. It's not the religion itself, it's the individual person, + their upbringing, that makes them that way.
3. Thanks for the warning. It's a pretty well known and open topic, and it does effect girls too, though to a lesser degree.
Soooo curious to read.
ReplyDeleteE, may I? Please?
Like usual your links don’t really lead to anything too specific. Though to comment: I think the responses there were pretty good, but it should obviously be kept in mind that the heart of the issur was towards the ancient pagan Canaanites, not to contemporary coworkers...
ReplyDeleteNot my religion. Some S----- idea of halacha.
ReplyDeleteAltie+Modeh: The dude who posted the question on Hashkafah.com wanted to behave like a normal human being, but his understanding of Judaism made him think that this was not allowed. Please enlighten me. Where did he go wrong?
ReplyDeleteAre you serious?
ReplyDeleteDid you read the freaking discussion, or did you stay there just long enough to notice that I had linked to h.com?
ReplyDeleteYes, I read it.
ReplyDeleteI never heard of that halacha, so I can't really say.
I don't agree with it, but if it is really a commandment, then maybe that is saying I go against G-d. Hmmm...
There's the whole arguement of how we can be called the 'chosen nation' and what does that make the non Jews. And there are plenty of people who say that religious Jews treat non Jews like scum, and put them down just because they think they are 'nothing' compared to us.
I disaegree with that mentality too. I won't say it isn't done, because I know people do think that way. But I don't, and I think it's wrong.
Easy. He listened to his rebbeim in high school instead of opening a RaMBaM, Shulchan Aruch (a shaar klal yisroel shulchan aruch that is, I don't know if the other one discusses it) or igros moshe. Or, perhaps he could have found himself some decent rebbeim.
ReplyDeleteAltie: think before you comment next time.
ReplyDeleteModah: instead of throwing names and blaming anonymous rabbeim, how about telling us your view?
I did think before I wrote that comment.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm thinking now, thought I'm pretty sure you don't want to know about what.
My view: As per RaMBaM the halacha states that lo sichoneim is only forbidden when it goes beyond being a normal decent human being. (darkei shalom.)
ReplyDeleteAlso, the shaving post I promised is up along with my first impersonator episode.
Modeh, you have a blog?
ReplyDeleteIn the basement. As I've said before, I've tried a blog of my own and I am simply too lazy. It is now in oblivion.
ReplyDeletee - you obviously realise that that discusion has nothing to do with what the halacha actually is, its just people giving their opinions.
ReplyDeletewhat actually is the halacha, where does this apply?
maybe it means you should not suck up to a non jew, and think his way of life is better than yours? (im just throwing the idea out, i havnt checked out the halachah at all)
Who cares if halacha is nice or not? What if it’s not nice? So what?
ReplyDeleteדרכיה דרכי נועם כתיב
ReplyDeleteC.A. i cant tell if thats a joke or did you not realise what you just said?
ReplyDeleteCA's right. There are times when halacha isn't nice. This simply isn't one of them. Lo sichoneim is one of those things that people like to apply to provide excuses to be jerks.
ReplyDeleteread this despite the disclaimer.
ReplyDeletelaughed.
decided that it wasnt true for judaism, but was true for some people's practice of it.
that's what makes it funny.
Modeh: Good point.
ReplyDeleteBut still, this la'av shows us that Judaism isn't all lovey-dovey and humanistic as people would like to pretend.
CA: Nice to see the good old-fashioned, unabashed fundamentalism come out again.
(unlike other people who are very abashed of their fundamentalism.)
ReplyDeleteWho said anything about lovey dovey? Certainly not me and I resent the implication that I am abashed of my fundamentalism. I am simply a good little fundamentalist who will be nice when my fundamentalism demands it and not one of these wannabe muslims who only shows up for sinner-burnings.
ReplyDeleteBS"D
ReplyDeleteH.com has little to do with Judaism.
It is a free for all where people waste a bit of time showing off what proves to be their utter lack of knowledge. Last time I looked, before adding it to my filter, it had become a playground for OTD and ortho-skeptic types, with a few bored souls thrown in for good measure.
But no, Yiddishkeit (of which halacha is the essence) is not touchy feely or free for all. Those who present it as such are doing a big disservice.
Sometimes it contradicts with Western notions of what is supposedly right and it most certainly is not nor is it supposed to be politically correct.
We are supposed to be apart from the other nations, though not to an absurd level. I have no idea what this H.com thread is about but it sounds like someone with BT or kanoi syndrome took a concept in halacha to an absurd level, and that as usual the skeptic and OTD crowd called him down for it whereas no one in that trailer park knew the correct way to explain the halacha.
Esav soine es Yaakov is always under the surface even in multicultural democracies and we have to make sure that we always display gaoin Yaakov and kol Yaakov which is the only way we win against ydei Esav.
I see it every day here in Ukraine, where the more Jews act Jewish and build a strong community, the more respect we get from the same neighbors whose ancestors served as guards in the camps only six decades ago.
Shaygitz, you don't seem to have a high opinion of anybody.
ReplyDeleteBS"D
ReplyDeleteIndeed, I have a very low opinion of those who use the Net for spreading klipa in the guise of free expression. Judaism is NOT a Western free for all liberal philosophy and we do NOT need to reconcile our citizenship in a democracy with our Jewish identity. Instead, we have to use the freedom given to us by life in a democracy where a certain culture may be dominant but is not enforced to live as full, proud Jews. The OTD's of today, and the H.com crowd, are looking for the easy life which is the klipa upon which Western society is built rather than being thankful that it is a benevolent klipa that allows us to live in kedusha.
I consider h.com part of the ortho-skeptic/OTD sewer.
H.com allows OTD, as well as deformed, disservative and even thinly disguised missionaries an equal voice on what was supposed to be a frum site. You cannot mix lye and sugar and try to make a cake. What has happened is that the lye took over and that site is now mostly koifrim and bored souls who, while decent, do not have the strength or knowledge to counteract the koifrim (really am-haarotzim and mumarim leteyavoin) and their nonsense.
In fact, I saw someone go OTD largely because his or her beliefs and confusion were reinforced by the banter on H.com, and it was not a nice sight.
And sadly, most of us, myself included, who use the Net, do not spread kedusha either, but are just having fun online.
I am moving more and more sites into my filter and looking for ways to be far less dependent on the Net for parnosso, because I am beginning to see that the perils of using the Net for anything other than business communication, keeping in touch, and straight news and information outweigh the benefits.
My heart is with those rabbonim who ban the Net, but for me it is not practical to remove it from my midst.
You realize that you tend to generalize A LOT, and you don't think the otd's should have the 'right' to voice their opinion. Besides the fact that you think their opinions are wrong.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone should go otd because of confusing sides they have heard, especially on a sight like h.com, and if they do, possibly they had doubts in themselves all along, and that just gave them the extra push.
Someone who lives doubt-free is a lucky man, but it doesn't seem possible.
My point is: who is to say that you have it right, and they are wrong? To them, you are of course wrong. Which makes it all relative to which side you are standing on. Unless of course you are G-d, and you stand above it all. But then again, if you are an otd, you don't believe there is a G-d...
Let's just have fun and party! Life is way too short for all this confusion...
BS"D
ReplyDeleteNo, they do not have the right to a voice on what should be a frum forum.
And if you do not believe you are standing on the right side, then that is fine - move to the other side and be done with it.
Even Ben Gurion OLBM was willing to recognize that his cart was empty when he went to visit the Chazon Ish ZTL rather than the other way around. That is because deep down his neshomo knew he was wrong. And now, at 86, expecting that a not very good din awaiting him soon in Olam Haba, Shimon Peres is quoting Reb Nachman meBreslov and looking for photo ops with Chabad....
Sorry, but life is not a party. Life is duty and responsibility and finding true happiness and meaning in that which we are here to do. Parties - sure, on Simchas Torah, Purim, and even Shabbos when we are supposed to party as we rejoice in our Creator and the Torah He gave us. Even overdoing it when we are supposed to party leaves you with a bad hangover the next morning. When your whole life is a party, then the hangover is proportionate as well.
BS"D
ReplyDeleteNo, you cannot live doubt free. But you can look at the whole picture and realize that maybe parts don't seem to make sense but on the whole, the result is right.
Try to cut corners in a recipe and you'll end up with a bad tasting dish. Try to cut corners in construction and you will end up with tragedy - even if you don't understand what that ingredient or part does or why you have to add or install it as specified in the directions, and some chochom on the net tells you you can leave it out or use some cheap substitute, you'll find out soon enough that you have a recipe or a plan for disaster instead of a cake or a skyscraper.
I guess I got pretty interested in this since I just wrote a post about it (more to put my own mind at ease than to say something to others)...
ReplyDeleteOh, right..
ReplyDeletehttp://sshriki.blogspot.com/2009/09/blog-post_30.html
(Almost forgot about that part).
Shaygitz- you leave no wiggle room.
ReplyDeleteI just hope you don't try to go on shlichus saying those kinds of things.
I'm not going anywhere. That wasn't my point.
BS"D
ReplyDeleteNo, no intention of going out on shlichus or doing any sort of formal kiruv work. Not cut out for it and never pretended to be cut out for it.
In fact I am Chabad by default, or more a follower of the Chassidus than a member of the organization.
I am displeased with the low standards especially since 3T and wonder if I still have a place in Chabad. If it were not for a statement made by one of the Satmar rebbeim I would leave here and go to KJ to be his Chossid, but that statement shows I have no place with him.
And if Reb Amram Bloy ZYA were alive, I would want to be his gabbai.
Shygetz, you sound like Anshei Liozna chevra.
ReplyDeleteBS"D
ReplyDeleteLOL - what I think of Shimmy cannot be said or written in even impolite company. Does he even have a minyan other than the visitors to his museum?
We aren't impolite company, we're downright rude. What do you think of him?
ReplyDeletePS I have no idea about the status of his olam.
Modeh: I wasn't referring to anyone in particular when I said that some fundis are abashed. Probably nobody here is, but we all know that the abasehd are out there, spreading misinformation, and halachos like this are good to have in your unabashed-fundi, anti-lovey-dovey arsenal.
ReplyDeleteAltie: For once, I agree with you.
Shegetz: brevity is the sould of wit.